Faith--Doubting My Christianity

TogetherForPeace Says:

Dec 4, 2008 - Mathe- Atheism is the belief there is no God. Now you may be one of those atheists that say, "no it's a lack of belief in God." Which if so perhaps the notion of intellectual freedom hasn't sunk in on all fronts for you. Role playing time: Friend says, "I lack a belief in Santa." So you're saying you don't believe in Santa. "No, Santa isn't real so I can't believe in something that's not real so I lack a belief." So you don't see how saying, 'Santa isn't real' is a statement of belief?

TogetherForPeace Says:

Dec 4, 2008 - Mathe- I have absolutely no desire to get into a discussion in the comment section regarding the nature of belief and what makes one. A person can use a variety of different ways to avoid making a positive assertion of belief for exam: Let's say you know a friend stole something from you. Your friend says, "I didn't steal anything." To which you say, "I lack a belief in your honesty." or you can say, "I don't believe you." or "I disbelieve you."

TogetherForPeace Says:

Dec 4, 2008 - You've defined what intellectual freedom means to you I'm sure that will be helpful for you as you continue to define your life's purpose knowing that it has no ultimate one. But hey humanity doesn't need some grand purpose no of course no instead humanity can talk about intellectual freedom and pretend like they have some grand purpose to strive for as if anything that brought humanity about actually cares.

TogetherForPeace Says:

Dec 4, 2008 - The funny part Mathe is that you have dogma that you're holding onto like any religious person. You come on my channel telling others what they should value and strive for all the while never telling them how life is ultimately meaningless and really you can have whatever meaning you want because you Mathe have nothing to base your beliefs on about your life and what we should value other than yourself.

Mathenaut Says:

Dec 4, 2008 - The most common obstacle I come across as an atheist, is that christians constantly presume to tell me what I do and do not believe, then build an argument from it. You have trouble seeing the distinction between simply not believing in something, and making an assertion about the nature of something. Atheism isn't a statement about the nature of any particular god. Gnosticism is another matter entirely. For you to insist otherwise is to make a strawman of the position.

Mathenaut Says:

Dec 4, 2008 - The irony. There is a distinction between saying "I don't believe you." and saying "You are a liar." I can only hope that I don't have to explain this.

TogetherForPeace Says:

Dec 4, 2008 - Both are rooted in belief. You wouldn't say someone was a liar if you didn't believe it to be true.

TogetherForPeace Says:

Dec 4, 2008 - Mathe- Indeed there are different degrees in which someone can express and/or hold their belief. Some can express or hold their belief as though they know it, meaning there is absolutely no chance of it being otherwise. Others can express the same belief but with not as much certainty because they realize they don't have all the information to assert their belief as being something they know for sure.

TogetherForPeace Says:

Dec 4, 2008 - The difficulty is some atheists speak as though the know it to be true there is no God. Of course all people at times speak as though they know something to be true. Let's take your comment for example: "Embrace doubt. Listen to the rational part of your mind that is trying to tell you that something is WRONG. It is your ticket to intellectual freedom, take it." You apparently believe that something about doubt is worthy of embracing as it relates to belief in God. Correct me if I'm wrong.

TogetherForPeace Says:

Dec 4, 2008 - You also believe there is some association between the doubt one has about God or Christianity and the rational part of the mind. Translation of all this is accept your doubt to be true since its coming from the rational part of your mind. This is your belief which although you asserted it as though it was true is indeed nothing but your belief and I would say when closely looked at your belief probably isn't something you practice in your own life.

TogetherForPeace Says:

Dec 4, 2008 - Some things to consider: 1. Not all doubts stem from rational inquiry. I would say most frequently doubts arise from emotion and in some cases cross over into sincere questions regarding such things as the trustworthiness of the Bible. 2. Simply because something comes from the rational part of brain doesnt mean its true or that we should embrace it. Peace be w/ you.

Mathenaut Says:

Dec 5, 2008 - "Both are rooted in belief. You wouldn't say someone was a liar if you didn't believe it to be true." Belief in that connotation is a far cry from the faith you hold in your god. This is as frivolous as saying that I have 'faith' that the nature of reality won't be suspended every time I turn my back to something, then alluding it to the same that you have in the supernatural.

Mathenaut Says:

Dec 5, 2008 - To assert this is to literally bastardize everything that I have said. I state that people need to decide for themselves what their meaning and purpose and life should be. Yet, you somehow turn this into me asserting that people should only lead their life the way that I want them to? Even more humorous is how you insist that there is no meaning to life without your specific god, simply because you have no concept of it aside from having 'meaning' spoonfed to you. Oh, the irony.

Mathenaut Says:

Dec 5, 2008 - "You've defined what intellectual freedom means to you I'm sure that will be helpful for you as you continue to define your life's purpose knowing that it has no ultimate one" You say that there is no meaning to life without someone telling you what it is...and you claim to be free because of that? Riiiight. The total freedom to do whatever you are told, with eternal punishment awaiting you if you disobey. The irony is something to be appreciated.

TogetherForPeace Says:

Dec 5, 2008 - Mathe- I can see you want to change the subject of this thread. I have nothing more to say. peace

Mathenaut Says:

Dec 5, 2008 - You go on a tangent, and I'm being accused of derailing the thread? Let me guess, the next step is to block and delete comments, right? Do you do this to all people who challenge you?

sethmanapio Says:

Dec 10, 2008 - Why are you afraid to post my response, Jack? Do you think it is dangerous to let other christians hear the opposition?

sethmanapio Says:

Dec 10, 2008 - Jack, you shouldn't embrace whatever comes from your rational mind. You should embrace your rational mind. There's a difference. Using your rationality to analyze propositions is not the same as having faith that your doubt is correct. It's having the courage to listen to your doubts and face them.

djosephallen Says:

Dec 11, 2008 - Hey Jack...hope you will approve my response... Peace

FakeSagon Says:

Dec 12, 2008 - you got PWNED by starmexus84! ha!

originalgrin Says:

Dec 12, 2008 - So in other words, doubting is only OK when it is does not call fundamental tenets into question. Because when it comes to answering real questions, I don't think God can handle "what ever we throw his way." I know this, btw, from personal experience. You don't make sense, how can one "be still and know he is God" WHILE at the same time in doubt that he exists? This is not realistic, it does not actually happen except perhaps in mysticism which is not new testament Christianity. Peace.

Val3y Says:

Dec 14, 2008 - Jack please make a video on sharing our faith. Please man! Please

PoxMulder Says:

Dec 14, 2008 - Hi Jack Thank you brother. I'm resuming my walk after spending years in the desert; it's a very long story. I am considering starting my own (after years of voyeuristially watching other people's YouTube postings) of starting my pwn after I get set up. I've decided I'd like to share some of my own experiences such as you have May the Lord bless and keep you well, through Jesus Christ Keep it up, some of us DO watch and digest your words as well as those of other Christians

begily Says:

Dec 16, 2008 - so you now "know" God exists, because you assume that someone rose from the dead.

angelexist Says:

Jan 8, 2009 - thank you for making this video..